Olympic Winners?

[00:00:00] The Why Curve with Phil Dobbie and Roger Herring.

[00:00:31] The Why Curve.

[00:00:34] It is the cost isn't it?

[00:00:36] It is a hurdle of Olympic proportions.

[00:00:38] You might say that, you might say that.

[00:00:40] And it keeps going because there are some of the former host cities who are still going

[00:00:45] on my guard how we're going to deal with all this.

[00:00:47] And you say, well, okay, they've got a slightly sport stadiums that they build that huge cost.

[00:00:51] You can use the future.

[00:00:52] Are they commercially viable on a long-term basis even if you wrote the cost off?

[00:00:56] There's been a lot of trouble over all that stuff.

[00:00:58] The legacy is like all at the beginning and the beginning.

[00:01:01] But the big problems with the legacy are often there in Olympic parks, which are away from where people live.

[00:01:06] So there's not much country.

[00:01:07] And it's their built for elite athletes.

[00:01:10] They're not built for you and me or for like what are you saying?

[00:01:13] Yeah, I think it's the problem that I think we were just before we started talking.

[00:01:16] We're probably, you know, it is quite an exclusive thing.

[00:01:18] Just because they do insist that you aren't quite fit.

[00:01:20] It's a very big part in it.

[00:01:21] I'm going to say that about.

[00:01:22] And I also think that, you know, pass the answer is if you want to get more money.

[00:01:27] Yeah.

[00:01:27] Is that it should be performed new again? Like it was originally.

[00:01:29] Well, we're set up a million in the TV.

[00:01:31] Yes.

[00:01:32] It's got to add a lot more for the TV, right?

[00:01:33] Channel 5 would run as all night.

[00:01:35] A people would pay for subscription TV a lot more.

[00:01:37] There was a lot more wouldn't they?

[00:01:38] There was a lot more wouldn't they?

[00:01:39] For the problem but there isn't massive issue and how they get to keep these things being staged.

[00:01:43] When certainly with Commonwealth games, which are mentally indifferent.

[00:01:46] So many cities don't want to stage them.

[00:01:48] It's actually becoming embarrassing.

[00:01:50] It's a normal Asia with space to be staging in 26 when they only they've pulled out.

[00:01:55] Your Australian didn't want to do that.

[00:01:56] They will, yeah, they would the Gold Coast pull out their bid after 226 as well.

[00:02:01] And then Victoria was supposed to be holding the 222 games and they pulled out, which I think is why ended up in Birmingham, isn't it?

[00:02:08] So it's a last piece of the games of last year's or something.

[00:02:12] There's clearly the karma games.

[00:02:13] There's a real problem.

[00:02:14] But even the other things like the big end in the National Athletics things going on and the winter and because of the slow

[00:02:20] things which do you, is the too much sport?

[00:02:22] Yeah, what do you get out of it?

[00:02:23] That's the other thing because in the end that's what the city is interested in.

[00:02:26] Yes she gets lots of people turning up at the time.

[00:02:29] But and broadcasts are supposed but those are all tied up with the International and Big Committee.

[00:02:33] So does it exactly?

[00:02:34] That would then swear the money goes to the Internet.

[00:02:36] So the host city doesn't get any of the money at all from the Internet.

[00:02:38] I don't know if I don't know.

[00:02:39] We will find out in the family.

[00:02:41] These very same details.

[00:02:42] Well lots of questions on it today aren't they?

[00:02:44] And you know is it all just got too big?

[00:02:46] I mean is the way actually, and in the past Olympics actually is a bit cheaper than for example the Tokyo Olympics.

[00:02:52] Hmm.

[00:02:53] We imagine the Tokyo Olympics.

[00:02:54] So we're going to miss the 90 audience.

[00:02:55] Yeah exactly.

[00:02:56] Because we're sure in COVID and they were delayed by year.

[00:02:59] Yeah, of course.

[00:03:00] So I mean they had the problem there had the cost and none of their revenue from tickets.

[00:03:03] So it's a mess.

[00:03:04] And a lot of words.

[00:03:05] And the Paris thing and you know why has been all this money on the opening ceremony for having to say?

[00:03:09] Yeah.

[00:03:09] I mean what's going on?

[00:03:10] Yeah.

[00:03:11] Yeah.

[00:03:11] But we'll draw a very bad French movie.

[00:03:13] Was it?

[00:03:14] Can French movies go on forever and ever?

[00:03:16] Well that long scene where not a lot happens.

[00:03:19] There was a lot of that going on.

[00:03:21] Cultural commentator Phil Dobby.

[00:03:25] Who's a film contributor to the KIA defilum as well.

[00:03:29] Yeah, yeah.

[00:03:30] Yeah.

[00:03:30] Well let's talk to somebody who knows about stage and these things.

[00:03:33] And because they're of that Simon Chadwick, Professor at Schema Business School in France teaching links between

[00:03:38] the politics economics and the world of sports and he joins us.

[00:03:42] So yeah, it's hard to handle.

[00:03:43] I think Schema isn't it?

[00:03:43] Oh, Schema?

[00:03:44] Yeah.

[00:03:45] So is it Schema or Schema?

[00:03:46] And also what does Schema?

[00:03:48] It is Schema.

[00:03:50] What is it stand for?

[00:03:51] It's the school of knowledge, economy and management.

[00:03:56] And I can't remember what the air stands for.

[00:03:58] That covers your time for you.

[00:04:01] You really need to sort up on.

[00:04:03] Yeah.

[00:04:03] We're doing a second in for is for where you work.

[00:04:05] But anyway, we've got an escape and I don't know about you.

[00:04:07] But anyway, we're looking at the Olympics and games generally and just how viable they are.

[00:04:13] I mean, is this becoming a problem, isn't it?

[00:04:14] You know, your questions are really interesting, won't because we in places like Britain,

[00:04:21] but also in the United States and Germany and France and other such places.

[00:04:26] We tend to look at mega events in a rational economic way, in other words, if you're going to spend 10 billion or 20 billion or 30 billion,

[00:04:35] then surely surely you have to make 31 billion back or 32 billion back.

[00:04:40] In other words, there's got to be a return on investment, a tangible return on investment.

[00:04:46] But I think there are countries in the world that don't see it that way.

[00:04:50] And it's like a time.

[00:04:51] It's like a time.

[00:04:52] And again, that's really interesting because you've got Qatar.

[00:04:55] There is a room where the Qatar will bid for the 2036 Olympic Games.

[00:04:58] There's a room at two Saudi Arabia will bid for the 2036 Olympic Games.

[00:05:03] And as we saw from the Qatar World Cup in 2022, this was almost a kind of money-new object,

[00:05:08] a mega event, although there were significant benefits for Qatar that we may not be able to measure economically.

[00:05:15] So I guess the first thing to say is it really depends who you ask and regarding what the kind of answer you would get about,

[00:05:24] do you need to make a return on investment from spending your billions of pounds on?

[00:05:28] Well, let's pick up on that and say, well, okay,

[00:05:30] you talk about certain attitudes in the West.

[00:05:33] I suppose one thinks of the Los Angeles Olympics, tow the Tokyo Olympics,

[00:05:39] the Sydney Olympics and of course the London Olympics.

[00:05:42] Did they in terms of return on investment?

[00:05:44] And I suppose again, even that's a complicated question.

[00:05:47] Did they work?

[00:05:48] Well, let's take a step ahead and further back into history in the 1976 games in Montreal.

[00:05:54] Because I think this was the, this was the games that shocked everyone because it took 30 years.

[00:06:00] The local taxpayers and I emphasize local taxpayers to pay for the Montreal games.

[00:06:07] And that kind of tax burden and the financial returns associated with that event were such that.

[00:06:16] I think a lot of people fell, you know, we just can't do this.

[00:06:19] And I guess if we fast forward to kind of about now.

[00:06:24] Over the last 10 years there have been referendums in in crackle in Oslo, in Munich.

[00:06:30] Where local government has asked local populations, do you think we should bid to host the winter Olympic games?

[00:06:36] And local populations have said, well, actually no, we don't think you should do that.

[00:06:40] Because if you're going to spend billions of euros, billions of pounds on staging in mega event,

[00:06:45] wouldn't it be better to, for example, spend on hospitals and roads?

[00:06:49] So I think certainly in our part of the world there is this, this angst about getting value for money and ensuring that if you do spending or you spend a year or

[00:06:58] year, you're going to get to you, or it's back. There's going to be a purpose for staging these counts.

[00:07:02] But then we should be able to do changes, doesn't it?

[00:07:04] Then anyone how well the economy is doing. So nobody has to particularly well right now.

[00:07:07] So nobody wants to spend money. There's not on hospitals or the police force or education,

[00:07:12] but we're in good times. Maybe people feel a bit more benevolent towards the idea.

[00:07:17] Maybe back in the old days, but I'm not so sure now because again, I think the interesting thing about

[00:07:23] if we can broadly, Western democracies is even in the case of France now, the French electorate

[00:07:33] weren't really asked. You want to do this. It was a decision taken by France, and take an up by

[00:07:40] Macron. And I think what's really happening inside France right now? We know politically what's

[00:07:45] happening inside France right now and has been certainly the last two or three months.

[00:07:49] This has become a kind of personal, Macron project. And I think there are lots of French people who don't

[00:07:57] necessarily agree with what he's done and what what Paris is doing. And even with the contents

[00:08:03] of the opening ceremony, there are lots of people inside France didn't agree with what was happening.

[00:08:07] So I guess the point I'm making is often this is not a conscious choice on the part of people

[00:08:15] on populations. This is driven by politicians. And even if you look at our case, you know, in London

[00:08:21] in terms of London 2012, this was kind of more Blair legacy than it was about having a vision

[00:08:28] of purpose or coherent strategy and depending the game. But it was a great party, wasn't it?

[00:08:33] And Sydney was the same as well. So I saw some numbers saying that Sydney costed a

[00:08:43] point five billion came from the public sector, the rest came from the private sector. And in terms

[00:08:49] of the economic activity that was generated from it up to and after the game. So from 1994 to 2005.

[00:08:55] So basically over that 10 years, it paid back 5.1 billion. So 1.4 billion less than it cost.

[00:09:03] But over 10 years I mean most people would say, yeah, but we've got great memories from it. So actually

[00:09:07] the pay back in terms of how we feel about being Australian. Most people would probably say, yes,

[00:09:12] it was a good investment.

[00:09:13] Now that is an illustration, I think of in general what typically tends to happen around not just

[00:09:21] some are like the games, but winter like the games as well, which is there is a marginal loss

[00:09:26] associated with staging these events. It is unusual certainly according to the research.

[00:09:33] It is unusual to come out ahead. So in the case of London, you spend 10 billion pounds. If you're

[00:09:39] looking at your mic, you might come out even, you generate benefits of 10 billion as well.

[00:09:47] But in many cases we haven't seen that. When you're really interested in what's happening in Paris right now,

[00:09:51] because for example, hotel bookings across the city are down by up to 50% in some cases,

[00:09:58] because basically people are staying away. They don't want to go somewhere where they're going to be crowds.

[00:10:03] They're going to be able to place potentially there could be trouble. So they've gone elsewhere and

[00:10:08] the security barriers mean a lot of the pubs and so on.

[00:10:11] And coffee's are closed anyway.

[00:10:13] Well, absolutely. You got a Paris for a particular experience. And if you got a Paris right now, you're not going to get that experience.

[00:10:19] So there is an economic impact. But I think what's interesting about again, if we could call this the Western world,

[00:10:25] is we are thinking about these type of calculations and you're maybe to feel good about ourselves,

[00:10:31] spending a lot of a billion euros or a billion pounds is acceptable.

[00:10:37] I think where we have all been scared or whether the frightness has come from, if we can put it that way,

[00:10:43] is from, for example, Russia in 2014, the Sotchi Winter Games, which cost $60 billion to stage.

[00:10:51] And there was a feeling that has been a feeling over the last decade amongst people working in the industry,

[00:10:58] that essentially if we get into this kind of arms race of spending on the Olympic Games,

[00:11:03] then it will disinfect people and cities will go cold on the idea.

[00:11:07] I think what Francis done in France is about 7 billion euros, I believe.

[00:11:14] Francis reassured us that there are cost-effective ways of doing this.

[00:11:18] And we don't have to get drawn into these extravagances that cost huge amounts.

[00:11:22] And there still has the same effect as me, because I mean, okay, the opening ceremony was a bit tedious, wasn't it?

[00:11:27] But it wasn't held by the fact it was raining.

[00:11:29] But then the next day, I was watching in the grounds of their side, the question events.

[00:11:37] And it just looked beautiful. And it really felt, you know, I think, yeah, I really want to go back to their side.

[00:11:41] It sounds the country.

[00:11:42] Well, there's something else that sounds the culture.

[00:11:45] What about the selling on the spreadsheet side with the Simon?

[00:11:49] I mean, we're talking in big terms about how, you know, where the money comes back.

[00:11:53] What's on the debit and what's on the credit side?

[00:11:55] So I mean, if you on the debit side, I mean, obviously there's the cost of building the places where people stay

[00:12:01] and the places where people compete and I suppose they hold security thing and putting on facilities for spectators.

[00:12:07] And on the other side, I mean, what is the money come from?

[00:12:10] I suppose, number the ticket prices does that give the Olympic committee, doesn't go to the host's,

[00:12:14] is he what about the broad cast rights?

[00:12:16] I mean, what are the balances on that?

[00:12:17] Because most of the broadcast rights goes to the IOC doesn't it?

[00:12:20] And that's the, that is the largest source of revenue.

[00:12:23] There's like six million different things in there, but you know, you know, I, you know, I've been to one pick.

[00:12:28] Pick out the ones we should sell to see.

[00:12:30] What's the signal in the coffee now?

[00:12:31] Just start seeing how it works.

[00:12:32] I have your six.

[00:12:33] My holiday starts now.

[00:12:34] So I'll go, I'll go, I have your first question.

[00:12:36] I mean, you're pointing about Versailles.

[00:12:41] This is the point.

[00:12:43] And you gave some figures earlier about Sydney over a ten year period and that is the point

[00:12:48] because one of the economic impacts of staging a mega event in a particular country is that you will,

[00:12:54] you will have friends for instance return visits.

[00:12:58] So all those people are in Paris now who've got the city Olympic Games all think,

[00:13:01] well, you know this is such quite nice.

[00:13:02] We'll come back.

[00:13:03] Yeah, sure.

[00:13:03] Yeah, we'll come back with a glass of water.

[00:13:06] When it's over and so this is, this is a tangible economic impact.

[00:13:11] So Macron and France more generally part of the plan is to showcase the

[00:13:15] Iful Tower and to showcase the Louvre and Versailles because Paris has got a place in the world

[00:13:21] that it not only needs to maintain but really get to kind of assert.

[00:13:26] So that's, that's one part of this.

[00:13:28] I mean, in terms of the other things that you mentioned,

[00:13:33] one of the things that I think that that is really, really important about what's now happening in Paris is

[00:13:40] you know, if we take the athletes village for example.

[00:13:43] So the whole point about the athletes village in France is that it does have a life after the games is over.

[00:13:48] And and we see the same in London.

[00:13:50] You go out to to to to strap foot and you know back in the day,

[00:13:53] strap foot wasn't the kind of place that lots of people would necessarily go to.

[00:13:57] But now this is a living breathing community.

[00:13:59] The catharise bought the athlete village and this is a place where people now live and work and go out

[00:14:04] dining and socialize and and so forth.

[00:14:06] And the same thing is happening in Paris.

[00:14:08] Now, now what's interesting about the athletes village is the rural at call place and

[00:14:13] your listeners may be familiar with at call because of pulmon hotels,

[00:14:18] of soft hotel or Ibis.

[00:14:21] And and and so they're running athletes village and when the when the games is over

[00:14:25] and this athletes village will resume will become some form residential accommodation.

[00:14:30] Although there is a question I was important question about what kind of residential accommodation.

[00:14:35] So I guess that leads me on to the third point which is about your debit and credit is is

[00:14:39] the Olympic Games as a circus it comes to town for two weeks.

[00:14:45] And the economic consequences of what happens next is really left with the host city.

[00:14:51] So what the Olympic Games is doing, obviously it's generating revenues from from TV and

[00:14:56] from sponsorships for for the IOC itself.

[00:15:00] But locally what you are looking at is obviously you've got to make the most of sponsorship

[00:15:04] arrangements and you'll find if you go to the IOC website that there are lots of local sponsors

[00:15:09] you know, car for supermarkets for example.

[00:15:12] So that's one way of generating revenues.

[00:15:15] And of course there are these accompanying programs, cultural programs and

[00:15:20] team programs that drive tourism numbers and that has an economic impact as well.

[00:15:27] And this, one of the things that the French very big on right now is it's public public private sector

[00:15:31] partnership.

[00:15:33] And so several of those venues have been developed or are being utilized as public private sector

[00:15:38] to partnerships.

[00:15:40] And so revenues are being derived from the private sector as well.

[00:15:42] The IOC be putting some more of their money though into the games because I mean they are getting a

[00:15:48] plug of the money on the, they're getting of the revenue because they're getting all the broad

[00:15:51] constraints as they understand it.

[00:15:53] And they're looking on the IOC website.

[00:15:55] What do they do with that?

[00:15:55] Well, they say they use it to fund athlete development for $2 million every day.

[00:16:02] They say they spend on that.

[00:16:04] And of course, you know, we've that, I had a whole lot of accusations about members taking

[00:16:08] bribes in the IOC, dealing with that kind of kind of money.

[00:16:11] You can imagine that there would be a bit of corruption around naturally anyway.

[00:16:15] I mean, is the IOC just become too big.

[00:16:18] And if you're these taking this man, you know, should some of those broadcast rights actually

[00:16:21] be going to the host city rather than to the IOC?

[00:16:23] We're going to make him more viable if they do.

[00:16:25] Yeah.

[00:16:25] I mean, the important thing to keep in mind, I guess there are two things.

[00:16:29] Firstly, is do we as a world want an Olympic games?

[00:16:36] And if we do, then organizing these types of events are really complex.

[00:16:42] You know, if you're talking about large numbers of athletes and members of the media and

[00:16:47] spectators congregate in one place to watch these multi-sport events, you know, these are complex

[00:16:52] and any cost money to stage them.

[00:16:55] Whether the IOC and its current model is the best way of delivering an event of this

[00:17:00] nature, I think, is, you know, is a question that needs to be debated and discussed.

[00:17:05] But in fairness to the IOC, you know, essentially the IOC is, I guess, how would it

[00:17:11] be described?

[00:17:12] It's got a two sort of two-shot strategy.

[00:17:14] So it's going to make money at the winter Olympic games, it's going to make a money at the

[00:17:17] summer Olympic games.

[00:17:18] So this is not Amazon, it's not selling, selling things all day every day.

[00:17:23] Yeah, essentially their business model is oriented around these, these mega events that take place

[00:17:30] in frequently.

[00:17:31] So it has to make the most of them.

[00:17:33] Make the most of them.

[00:17:34] But you do raise a really important question.

[00:17:37] I guess for most of us, we might ask ourselves, well, what does the IOC and I think we're

[00:17:41] actually doing?

[00:17:43] And I guess once, you know, this time next year when the Olympics has gone, most of us, if we

[00:17:46] were to ask, what does he, how you'll see do?

[00:17:48] We wouldn't be able to talk about athlete development or helping in poverage communities around

[00:17:53] the world.

[00:17:53] So I think the IOC does need to represent itself more effectively so that we do understand

[00:18:00] what it actually does.

[00:18:01] Well, can you give examples for that 4.2 million a day?

[00:18:04] Can you give us any?

[00:18:04] You want another truth?

[00:18:06] Yeah.

[00:18:06] No, I can't.

[00:18:09] So you need to be more visible.

[00:18:12] Yes, and I think you raise a really, really important point.

[00:18:17] You used the word, you know, the B word, and this is a word that I know that people

[00:18:21] inside governing bodies always bribery, but then you can confuse.

[00:18:24] Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're governing bodies in sport.

[00:18:27] Always worry about this word.

[00:18:29] But I think these organizations are so large.

[00:18:34] And there is this kind of gravey tree in effect.

[00:18:37] You know, if you can get a job for the IOC and travel the world and stay in nice hotels and so on and so

[00:18:40] fully, what a great, unlike you and me.

[00:18:43] We've got to do things like this to make a living.

[00:18:46] There is a gravey train.

[00:18:48] And as we've seen in the past with the IOC, we've also seen in the past with, for example,

[00:18:52] FIFA, there is sometimes activity that many of us would seem to be unacceptable.

[00:19:00] And I think when you're dealing with a global organization, such large amounts of money,

[00:19:04] it isn't particularly transparent.

[00:19:07] Sometimes issues around what governance, bribery and other

[00:19:12] susceptivities do arise.

[00:19:15] And I think for me personally, in our globalized world, we have these large organizations

[00:19:19] and I mentioned Amazon as one, I mentioned Akkor hotels as another.

[00:19:24] How you actually govern these organizations?

[00:19:26] And how you remain transparent, relevant to people's lives.

[00:19:31] How you explain yourself, how you account for the money you spend.

[00:19:35] There's a lot of improvement to be made, I think.

[00:19:37] Yes, we do have this image and I might don't hear that somebody is sitting in a

[00:19:41] bar somewhere, making a cigar, drinking fine whiskey and saying,

[00:19:45] well, I'm doing my bit for helping completely development.

[00:19:48] The point in all this really is maybe the commercial one.

[00:19:51] There's a history of the Olympics being seen as the amateur sport.

[00:19:56] It's where everyone's clean and above all this.

[00:19:58] And as you said, there's an awful lot of sponsorship in the background.

[00:20:01] I love those pictures floating around a couple of weeks ago from the Los Angeles,

[00:20:06] Olympics in the 80s, which had the official cigarette of the Olympics and how that

[00:20:11] was being pushed.

[00:20:12] Things have changed a lot, but sponsorship is there.

[00:20:15] Maybe if rather than cities hosting, when more commercial,

[00:20:19] most companies hosting these things, we get around all these problems because they

[00:20:23] have the money to do it, they get the benefit from doing it.

[00:20:26] And then the company chooses which city it's going to be held in.

[00:20:28] Pretty much and pay spreads.

[00:20:30] I mean, you know, maybe what you're hung up, but it's too much for one company.

[00:20:33] I think that's what I mean, I'm sure Microsoft could do it without

[00:20:36] turning it here.

[00:20:37] But you know, maybe that's where it needs to be.

[00:20:39] So I'm an in order to make it more vibrant.

[00:20:41] That's really interesting, again, really interesting point that you make because

[00:20:44] there is a world corporate games for example.

[00:20:46] So we do all ready to have global sport,

[00:20:49] make a revenge for run by companies, you know, they call the world corporate

[00:20:52] games.

[00:20:55] But this really drives to the heart of what do we want the Olympics to be?

[00:21:01] Yeah, it's not the same.

[00:21:03] Do we actually need events like this?

[00:21:05] Do we do we as a world do we derive significant benefit from having the Olympic

[00:21:11] games?

[00:21:12] Do we believe that it should continue in its current form?

[00:21:16] And if we do, then great.

[00:21:18] Now let's talk about it.

[00:21:19] Let's have an open discussion.

[00:21:20] Let's have a dialogue about what that might look like.

[00:21:23] Or do we need new and different models?

[00:21:25] And I think we are, for me personally, I do think that the IOC face is some

[00:21:30] existential threats right now.

[00:21:32] And you talk about, you know, corporate games.

[00:21:34] We've already seen Red Bull with the X Games pulls in quite a significant threat to the IOC.

[00:21:39] But at the same time, another one for you is it's in September in Russia.

[00:21:44] There is the World Friendship Games, which is a which is a put in invention

[00:21:48] which looks like the Olympic Games and sounds like.

[00:21:51] Yeah, the Ukrainian team will be fascinating.

[00:21:53] They will be a big team of people.

[00:21:56] So there are 17 nations have committed to the World Friendship Games.

[00:22:02] And so the IOC and the Olympic Games do face existential threats.

[00:22:05] And so they do need to remain kind of nimble and lean and adaptable and really respond

[00:22:10] to changes in the world.

[00:22:12] And I'm not sure the IOC is really in that position to be able to do that effectively.

[00:22:17] And so as we move forward, you know, let's say, as we move forward up to 2050,

[00:22:22] I do think that we will see the IOC being forced to contemplate different operating models.

[00:22:29] And it could be that we've got, you know, kind of what will they call polycentric staging.

[00:22:33] And polycentric staging is within.

[00:22:34] Let's take the 2036. How would it be if Dahlha and Ria together staged the 2036 Olympic Games?

[00:22:41] Well, how did Japan and Korea won at the same?

[00:22:44] That was old.

[00:22:45] Well, we've got a similar model and idea.

[00:22:48] Well, absolutely. And we are seeing it.

[00:22:50] And if we go to the next World Next Football World Cup in 2026, you've got the United States,

[00:22:54] Mexico and Canada sharing hosting.

[00:22:56] Same again in 23.

[00:22:58] Yeah, make a little sense with that.

[00:22:59] So there are different ways of doing things.

[00:23:03] And yeah, unless we get Russia to actually host an Olympics because it's so expensive.

[00:23:08] That would be grungless.

[00:23:08] You'd bang properly less money for the war effort.

[00:23:10] Well, I guess what we could do.

[00:23:12] We could force Russia to bear for everything and pretend that we like them.

[00:23:14] And then we can pretend that we like them.

[00:23:16] Just for just until the games are over.

[00:23:18] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:23:19] Got you.

[00:23:20] But are there too many sports as well? So we've got skate this time.

[00:23:23] New sports, skateboarding surfing,

[00:23:25] Break the dancing.

[00:23:26] It's a break dancing.

[00:23:27] We bought climbing 32 different sports.

[00:23:30] And then, you know, different categories within those.

[00:23:32] So a question is just one gymnastics is just one.

[00:23:35] So, you know, actually hundreds of different events.

[00:23:38] Where's the original games was running boxing over the new games,

[00:23:41] running boxing, wrestling, pancreasion, which is basically fighting with any rules whatsoever.

[00:23:46] I quite like the sound of that one.

[00:23:47] That sounds like my whole time.

[00:23:48] I wouldn't be able to be Russian, but it's not your home's end.

[00:23:51] You just say, yeah.

[00:23:53] A question and pentathlon.

[00:23:55] That was it.

[00:23:56] I mean, has it just got too big and does he need to be scaled back?

[00:24:00] I mean, again, super, super cool.

[00:24:02] I'm saying, saying this to all the questions.

[00:24:04] Super, super question.

[00:24:05] I'm just looking at a lot of good questions.

[00:24:07] We're all really good.

[00:24:09] I know it's been a lot of previous weeks.

[00:24:11] You've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've not been yet.

[00:24:13] I'll see you're performing well, but you've up to give in this week.

[00:24:16] So we're rising to the Olympic level.

[00:24:19] Um, great question.

[00:24:21] So right now, one of the things that a lot of people aren't noticing.

[00:24:24] But right now in Saudi Arabia, the esport world cup is taking place.

[00:24:28] And, and of course, at some stage in the near future,

[00:24:31] we're going to see esports and digital sports, various types.

[00:24:35] Also entering the Olympic game.

[00:24:36] So it seems to us that there is this proliferation of sports in the Olympic games.

[00:24:43] And keep in mind, this is set against the context of a world of sport,

[00:24:46] where we are seeing this, not just the proliferation of different sports,

[00:24:51] but also the proliferation of different formats.

[00:24:54] And if you think about cricket, for example,

[00:24:56] and the range of different formats, rugby and the range of different formats.

[00:25:00] And, and, and, and, and we are heading towards a point where I think for many people,

[00:25:04] there will be format fatigue.

[00:25:06] And, and again, I speak personally in my case,

[00:25:08] I cast switched off to cricket quite a long time ago,

[00:25:11] because I could never figure out who was playing when and what far or

[00:25:14] formats were were developing on, you know, which were less popular.

[00:25:18] And so people will eventually start to switch off.

[00:25:20] So again, there is a decision that there is, um,

[00:25:23] it is incumbent upon the IOC to get the optimum number of events right.

[00:25:28] It has to be inclusive.

[00:25:29] Doesn't it? That's the point.

[00:25:30] You know, you have, you know, BMX bikes or break downs in the world.

[00:25:34] And that includes a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise be interested

[00:25:37] all participants in the Olympics.

[00:25:38] Well, there's two as two old guys, actually, as three old guys,

[00:25:41] as we will know that we live in an industry in a Gen Z world.

[00:25:45] And, and, and, and, and Gen Z consumers are saying,

[00:25:47] well, we are all console gaming in any in the Olympic games.

[00:25:50] And we won't be a MX skateboard break down sink.

[00:25:53] We don't want to see dress arch for example.

[00:25:55] And, and so I think the, the natural evolution of human populations

[00:25:59] are going to place significant pressure on the IOC to adapt and change.

[00:26:05] And, and, and, but, but it means I'm gaming is quite cheap isn't it really?

[00:26:08] Because first of all you run it overnight because that's when they're all up.

[00:26:12] And you just hold it in a small dark room.

[00:26:14] But you wouldn't even need to be there. You could do it from home.

[00:26:16] You wouldn't actually go anyway. You wouldn't need to be there.

[00:26:18] Well, as you say, there's, as you hosting solution straight away,

[00:26:21] you just, we can just play our home.

[00:26:23] I mean, it's gone as well.

[00:26:24] Yeah, I mean, it, it, it's really interesting that the, obviously, the IOC is,

[00:26:28] is now looking at this. They've, they've already said no shooting games.

[00:26:34] So when they're not going to have a games in the Olympics,

[00:26:37] where everybody gets killed.

[00:26:38] But then there are obviously different types of, you know, if you think about,

[00:26:42] if you think about, if you think about, or there are, there are console games that

[00:26:45] involve kind of participative collaborative decision-making.

[00:26:49] And then there are other games that involve competing with one another.

[00:26:52] So there's a whole bunch of, you know, what will these games be and who does it?

[00:26:56] More, isn't it? Two, two, two is broadening the brief.

[00:26:59] You know, does it actually need to be brought down?

[00:27:01] But look, maybe it's, to maybe the Olympics can survive.

[00:27:04] If it sort of scale back a bit and countries don't go too crazy.

[00:27:07] I mean, you can showcase your country without spending a, fortunately,

[00:27:10] and hopefully Paris is a bit of an example of stepping in the right direction on that.

[00:27:15] But, but beyond the Olympics, what about the Commonwealth games?

[00:27:17] Yeah, that's been a real problem. No, it's not.

[00:27:19] So Victoria pulled out, Victoria, Victoria, in Australia pulled out the 2022 games.

[00:27:23] So I think that's why I went to Birmingham, isn't it? Because they pulled out.

[00:27:26] And then the Gold Coast has pulled out, they've been in for 2026 also from Australia.

[00:27:29] And Malaysia has rejected the offer to host the 2022 6 Commonwealth games.

[00:27:33] So I'm not quite sure if we actually know, we're just hosting it in a couple of years time.

[00:27:38] So there's a, a huge lack of interest in the Commonwealth games.

[00:27:40] I mean, as it, as it, had its day.

[00:27:43] And unless the Commonwealth games can establish itself with a new proposition, then personally,

[00:27:50] I think it's this and numbered.

[00:27:51] Is that because the concept of the Commonwealth isn't just isn't a thing, or just the fact there were too many games like this?

[00:27:58] Well, yeah, so again, I go back to your previous question. Do we really need another sport,

[00:28:03] Megar event?

[00:28:04] Yeah, I, in addition to the Olympic Games, also got the Commonwealth games and you've got,

[00:28:09] who tends, friendship games, friendship games.

[00:28:13] So, you know, this is where does this end?

[00:28:15] You know, we're going to be all consumed by Megar events with different, you know, different sports.

[00:28:20] This has got to end at some stage. So there is that kind of format fatigue that I talked about earlier,

[00:28:25] but I think implicitly the whole notion of a British Commonwealth and what that means is,

[00:28:30] is somewhat outdating now and, and, you know, where we live in a world where there is this pivot from global north to global south,

[00:28:38] where you can make an political, how powerhouse is it?

[00:28:41] And not in places like London.

[00:28:43] They are in places like, you know, Malaysia and Singapore, Thailand, India and so forth.

[00:28:47] And they don't want to be reminded of their colonial past.

[00:28:51] And indeed, they feel that they now have the power, the self confidence, the identity,

[00:28:56] not to have to participate or at least host this kind of event.

[00:29:00] So I, for me, I think the Commonwealth games is on a long goodbye unless somebody comes up with a re-great idea for it.

[00:29:06] We don't, I never, I do watch the Olympics on TV and do get quite excited about your good Commonwealth games.

[00:29:11] I don't, you know, fail to get motivated by maybe we could run it at the same time.

[00:29:14] Actually, we should just give out Commonwealth medals during the Olympics.

[00:29:18] So even England gave for the UK came forth, for example.

[00:29:21] And the top three weren't Commonwealth countries then we'd get the gold Commonwealth games medal.

[00:29:27] Just, you know, sort of like, because that's all it is, isn't it really?

[00:29:30] It's like, well, you do well in the Commonwealth games because all the best competitors aren't in the Commonwealth.

[00:29:36] I don't think I'm just gonna put it.

[00:29:38] But I suppose somebody, maybe, it's not a sign of this silence on that.

[00:29:41] I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.

[00:29:42] You know, you know, we're going to say, well, you know, we're going to say, well, you know, we're going to say, well, you know, we're going to say, well, you should sell that to someone because somebody,

[00:29:47] maybe you should sell it to a, a gold state with the equivalent of dollars.

[00:29:51] So like a Commonwealth games on paper, that's all, well, well, but then I mean, during this altogether, you know, what you're saying is that the Olympics need to change their style.

[00:29:59] Perhaps overall we need to cut back both in the number of events that are in any given Olympics.

[00:30:06] And perhaps also overall we don't need as many big sporting events. It just doesn't, isn't necessary because all it's doing really is waving a flag and a very expensive flag.

[00:30:17] Two issues, I think for me, is it's, is we're living in any way all of it in an attention economy where we've got competing demands for our time, competing demands on our mobile phones and, and

[00:30:32] alongside that we are, we are a time in polish, which means that we all have the attention spans of a fleet.

[00:30:39] And and and so I think there is a really important issue there for the Olympics to to get to grips with these in, you know, in our kind of complex and fast changing world.

[00:30:50] How can this day relevant?

[00:30:52] But a lot of, but I think the second issue alongside that is who's going to drive this change because, you know, this is not like, you know, it breaks up like Brittany, like they will be

[00:31:01] going to be a big, we've got the Department for Culture Media and Sport. You know, clearly there is a minister and there's a prime minister, there's a cabinet, there's a parliament that oversees that.

[00:31:09] And if the DCMS is doing its job properly, then we call it to account but in the IOCs case who's going to call it to account.

[00:31:17] So, how, how, how, how it is good, how the IOC and how the Olympics are a government raises some really important questions.

[00:31:23] Now, it could be that we let the marketplace govern and you've already talked about having corporations dictate to the IOC about what shouldn't

[00:31:31] It shouldn't happen. But even so, the IOC, I think still returns are considerable amount of power in that evacuation.

[00:31:40] So, there is no super anywhere what I'm trying to say is there is no super global body that sits there overlooking the IOC, calling it to account.

[00:31:50] So, if we believe that the IOC is too bloated there are too many sports. There are possibly some suspicious individuals working inside the organization.

[00:31:59] You know, we believe that bad decisions are made to take the event to certain countries that we don't like.

[00:32:04] Ultimately, who calls this to account because? Well, that is good for you.

[00:32:08] Maybe you have the experiment. You're next go. It doesn't seem very likely.

[00:32:11] And they have apparently want to keep the power.

[00:32:14] I'm sure. As Homer Simpson said in the Simpson, maybe the course guard. That's a.

[00:32:20] I don't know if you have ever seen that episode, you know, who police is the police and Homer Simpson's answer to that is the course guard?

[00:32:28] Well, we know. That's why they're not going to take everything.

[00:32:33] Anyway, we've had some good solutions though.

[00:32:36] So, I mean, maybe the IOC listening today. You know, because they're in a test.

[00:32:40] And I'm message to them is well, first of all, you've got to promote what you do a little bit more.

[00:32:44] You've got to explain what you're doing with all this.

[00:32:46] You've got to be less interrupt.

[00:32:47] A little bit less corrupt. And then the idea that the games may be the fewer actual sports taking part.

[00:32:53] They get just get chunked up.

[00:32:55] And so you have multiple venues, multiple countries bidding for each one of you could chunk it up.

[00:33:00] Can you say, well, okay, all the tracks, but track and field is going to be one country.

[00:33:05] You're all the other countries, and maybe some places are. And here's the thing, you know, you build facilities.

[00:33:15] And maybe they just get reused.

[00:33:16] So, it's so interesting.

[00:33:17] So, a question for example, you might go, well, actually there's a few countries in the world which are quite strong on that.

[00:33:21] And I've got the facilities.

[00:33:24] They could do it.

[00:33:24] They could do it every, you know, show amongst themselves every, every,

[00:33:27] You know, it was the Greeks. You should have the same place they did every year.

[00:33:30] Well, there we are. So, there's the other thing.

[00:33:31] So, it's just held in grace every year.

[00:33:34] Let's get a little bit of a cup of the world cup held in England.

[00:33:37] The Olympic, the Olympic, what are we going to let's go and have a sometimes.

[00:33:40] Maybe the Greek could sing its coming home. They could have their own version.

[00:33:43] It's already done.

[00:33:45] But I mean, if I could just say, well, final thing on that is,

[00:33:49] Is that France perhaps is providing some solutions, not just with Paris now.

[00:33:55] And as we can see, there are temporary venues using existing facilities.

[00:34:00] But in 2030, they're also going to host the Winter Olympic Games.

[00:34:05] And an exact do the same model is going to be employed in 2030.

[00:34:08] So, niece will be the focus.

[00:34:11] But all of the events, you know, things like ice hockey and curling

[00:34:14] And this kind of thing will take place in downtown niece in an existing venue that already exists.

[00:34:21] All of the screen events will take place up in the out.

[00:34:24] So, again, different places, not in the same place in different places.

[00:34:27] But they will use existing infrastructure. So the transport systems are already there.

[00:34:31] The rail net, we're already there. The road net works already there.

[00:34:34] The results are already there.

[00:34:36] So, you know, France, me, without as realising it right now,

[00:34:39] France may be providing us with some points for the sustainability,

[00:34:42] Long-term sustainability, the games.

[00:34:44] Yeah. And that could be a decision that the IEC makes just how sustainable is the solution

[00:34:49] That you're providing.

[00:34:50] And also is it good for the planet?

[00:34:52] So building a lot of concrete construction, which might be Saudi Arabia's answer to everything.

[00:34:57] So, you know, to try and cater for a short-term need is not good for the environment.

[00:35:02] So, your dismissed on that basis, for example, they perhaps need to pander a bit more to the planet,

[00:35:08] which is quite important to all of us.

[00:35:10] We've got, obviously we've got 2024 just mentioned 20, 20, 20, 30 in the winter Olympics.

[00:35:16] We've got 20, 28 in Los Angeles.

[00:35:18] And again, I'm sure that as we saw in 1980, four in Los Angeles,

[00:35:23] 20, 28 will be a financially sustainable game.

[00:35:26] And so, you know, we can kind of pat ourselves on the back and say,

[00:35:30] You know what? We turned a corner and that the IOC is operating a, you know,

[00:35:34] not just in a more financially sustainable way, but more environmentally sustainable way.

[00:35:38] And then, rehab makes a bid for 20, 36.

[00:35:42] A huge amount of money derived from fossil fuel revenues.

[00:35:47] You know, is it going to take place in the middle of the summer?

[00:35:49] Are you going to have a condition venues? Is it going to be a different time of the day?

[00:35:52] No, credit.

[00:35:54] Saudi Arabia is the only bidder I think for the 234 World Cup.

[00:35:59] So this was confirmed within the last week, this has been confirmed.

[00:36:04] But all of that just raised issues around where has the money come from?

[00:36:08] How is the money being spent on what basis is the event being staged?

[00:36:12] And so we can sit here now and pat ourselves on the back and say,

[00:36:15] You know, everything's going to be okay.

[00:36:17] The French have shown us the way.

[00:36:18] But I think when the big money comes along and this kind of money,

[00:36:22] you know, object spending that I mentioned right at the very start of the podcast.

[00:36:25] We'll see how the IOC responds to that.

[00:36:28] And there's a traffic in the fact that they are the only bidder.

[00:36:30] You know, no one else is interested.

[00:36:32] This is the World Cup which you would assume a big,

[00:36:34] a little big cheaper.

[00:36:35] And how many South Asian workers will die building whatever it is they do,

[00:36:38] which is just another issue again.

[00:36:40] There we are.

[00:36:41] There's a cheering note for us.

[00:36:42] I'm good to talk. We always like to finish on a high slam.

[00:36:45] Good to have you on.

[00:36:45] Thank you.

[00:36:46] I'm sure you're inviting me.

[00:36:47] So next week.

[00:36:49] Yes.

[00:36:49] Something else that may be not financial is.

[00:36:51] Very expensive.

[00:36:52] And what is education?

[00:36:54] University education.

[00:36:55] Well, I mean, we also got the whole thing with private schools.

[00:36:57] Well, basically, private schools saying, yeah, we can't survive and we can't.

[00:37:00] We have to challenge the people.

[00:37:01] We have been in a way over dominant in the universities for a very long time.

[00:37:05] That's easing back.

[00:37:07] But there's a massive crisis in universities.

[00:37:09] I sent a large number of simply going to go bankrupt.

[00:37:11] You go and ask to decide what the hell it's going to do.

[00:37:14] Because they're all basis of which sorts of universities.

[00:37:17] Well, in any kind of university, a lot of even the big and older ones,

[00:37:20] the ones the politics that became universities, a lot of them are in deep trouble.

[00:37:24] But even some of the older universities are also suffering.

[00:37:27] And the love it's to do with the access to foreign students,

[00:37:30] which is not what it was.

[00:37:31] Yeah.

[00:37:31] But just a financial model of our ability of the more...

[00:37:34] Is it a bit like the Olympics are there just too many subjects?

[00:37:37] You know, I mean, you know, two really great.

[00:37:40] Too many places, too many subjects.

[00:37:41] Yeah.

[00:37:41] Too many people going to university.

[00:37:43] Well, that is an interesting and open subject, which we just part of the problem.

[00:37:46] But there's going to be a sense of how to be a malagamation

[00:37:48] and all kinds of things.

[00:37:49] And the government has got to take this on because the education sector is apparently,

[00:37:54] and now a lot of people are, I suppose, going to get their real-level results

[00:37:56] with them next week or so, and will be making their choices about where they go.

[00:38:02] And they're not even a guarantee, apparently, that some of the courses they've applied for

[00:38:06] are actually going to happen.

[00:38:07] Yeah.

[00:38:07] Or even the university is still being there.

[00:38:08] So, let's see.

[00:38:09] So, yeah.

[00:38:09] I mean, of course, you know, it was a very different story, wasn't it?

[00:38:12] When the government paid for everything, but so few people went to university

[00:38:15] for a pair to be in a day and so, so universities are having to.

[00:38:18] Maybe create a lot of these courses to try and get the money in,

[00:38:21] to try and keep them afloat.

[00:38:24] So where is the balance?

[00:38:25] We can investigate all of them.

[00:38:26] Next week.

[00:38:27] Next week here on The Waikep.

[00:38:28] See you next week.

[00:38:29] Have a great week.

[00:38:29] The Waikep.

[00:38:31] Good.